Etiquette

Hi, i think it may be a good idea to write some etiquette post. For example, i find it very annoying when people keep playing in positions a rook down (or even more!) without compensation at all. Such things can get people tired it. If you need to actually checkmate your opponent in a 5 day game it can last a lot.

Hello Alezflute,
I'm not sure I understand your position so please forgive my ignorance. Are you saying that
players should resign when they are a couple of pieces down? and what is the compensation aspect?
The things that bother me (and others I see) is when players time out with no explanation or when you have the upper hand (soon to checkmate) and your opponent doesn't make a move even though he/she is making moves in other games.

Regards to all,
Kevin

Hi Kevin,
well, what i mean is that in a normal chess game it's considered a little disrespectful to not to resign when your position is completely lost (for example, a rook down) See how Kortchnoi was famous for his anger in such situations. I don't mean to get to such extremes, but i find it tedious when people keep on playing in positions where there's nothing to play for, and are only waiting to be checkmated, lose their queen or anything else. The compensation part is for when they have, for example, sacrified a couple of pieces to get an attack. There is however, a big difference between that and blundering and keeping the game going for another 20 moves to see if the opponent can take all of your pawns. I think people should use that little examine button and then flip the board to see what the other sees and think twice if it's not better to resign and take a rematch. I understand also your complaint, and even if it only happened to me a couple of times, i fully back it.
Cheers

alezflute

Thanks Alezflute, I think I understand a bit better now, at least about the compensation part. I get what you mean about the hopeless situation, is a rook down a kind of chess terminology? I hope so as I have won a few games even after losing my queen and wouldn't retire after losing a rook!
I think etiquette is very important in life, especially in those comunities that value it most (I believe the chess community to fall into that category), and these kind of discussions are very helpful and educational in that respect.

Kind regards,
Kevin

Hehehe, i don't know if i would refer to chessplayers as a "community" but it's clear that there are lots of etiquette, at least in real-life tournaments (I now much less about correspondence chess, but i do believe there must be) A rook was only an example, but for the record i remember it was the limit of one of the first computers to resign (that is, when its evaluation was -5 in its best line ) As another example, i am currently playing a position in which i have king, bishop and two pawns (a and h) against my opponents bare king, yet he keeps playing. he maybe hopes for a stalemate... I just hope he doesn't disconnect a move before i checkmate him

I agree with what has been said thus far, but, I remind you that it is our opponents privilege
to "play on" to the bitter end if they so wish.
We have to accept, without being disrespectful, many players on this site play for the enjoyment of the game and lack the passion that drives others. It may look to some that these players are "taking the mick" by not resigning when we know they should.
It's a good thing that this topic has been mentioned and I say to the more "casual" players
that more respect is given to the player that resigns with good grace when the position becomes hopeless than one that staggers on regardless.

This is a tricky one. As Woody rightfully said, a player has every right to play on if he/she chooses. Your opponent might of spotted something you haven't.

On the other hand it can be quite annoying when someone is a queen down for example and drags it out. Though personally, I'd prefer to get a checkmate rather than someone resigning. A checkmate would make me feel better.

Perhaps a polite message to your opponent would be a good idea if a game is dragging on. Say something like "You've lost most of your major pieces now, do you want to resign and we can start a fresh game?"

Well now I don't feel comfortable with this suggestion at all. I've been playing chess for fifty
years and never once have I hinted to my opponent that He/She resign. In fact I think it is an affront, almost ungentlemanly.
If you want to explain to members about wasting time by not resigning then perhaps a well
drafted notice on the blog would be more fitting than individuals expressing their "polite message" which could border on intimidation.

I have to agree with Woody. Suggesting your opponent resign could definitely be considered rude, if not arrogant. I have come unstuck more than once after thinking to myself that the game was won!
On the other side of the fence, playing against a good friend of mine who had two queens on the board, I glibly offered him the draw which he refused and then went on to lose the game!
Of course, it's not so likely that seriously good players would lose once they get a couple of pieces in front but not impossible. I play some of my best chess when at piece disadvantage and opponents usually appreciate the battle. However, it would be best if we all knew when to resign but I guess that's something you just can't teach.
Regards to all,
Kevin

When i started the thread i wasn't at all thinking about suggesting people to resign positions with a piece less and an attack. The point is that many players keep playing when you have a piece for their queen and are still defending. That's considered unpolite and nonsense. It's like having a king vs king + outside pawn winning endgame and waiting for the other to promote and checkmate you. It can take about 10-20 moves at least and is quite fastidious since you're not playing at all. I very much prefer to play a rematch. Still, i know it's a player's right to resign when he consideres oportune to. That (resigning when you're lost) is one of the first thing you learn in a chess school or good club, to not keep annoying your opponents so they won't replay you. It's part of a chess education in my view, and so i thought it could be a good idea to write such a post.

Regards

alezflute

Yes, I understand. The question has to be 'when is the situation a lost one?'
Some very experienced players may regard it as a queen or a couple of major pieces down and defending whilst a 'casual player' may not see it in the same way.
I am somewhere in the middle myself, although I would hope not to annoy anyone by defending.
It's a very difficult subject but one well worth consideration.
Poor Andy must be getting a lot of headaches dealing with us

Regards,
Kevin

And as I said before, somewhere on this site could be a written statement explaining to the members the pitfalls of not resigning games when all is lost.
The statement would only take the form of a courteous suggestion, Which could be referred
to by players (if they so wish) to their opponents.
The benefit of this referral is its "backed up" by the site. not by the individual asking an opponent to consider resigning.
I can't think of any other game were one would ask his/her opponent if he /she will resign
because they have a lost game!!

I like Woody's idea of a "written statement". But why not call it a "Code of Conduct" or "Code of Acceptable Conduct". Then obviously you are not outright asking someone to resign, but all members know what is acceptable behaviour from the time they join.

Now lets just step back before we go over the edge.
In my opinion it's not etiquette to suggest your opponent should resign.
It maybe considered by some, that players not resigning when their position indicates they should, is deemed as "not being in the spirit of the game".
So, I suggest a way though this maze by......
Placing a well drafted recommendation on resignations, in the beginners section. and another one, titled "resignations" to fit into the menu.
This covers all angles Beginners/experienced alike. As "Resignations" will "draw the eye"
and WILL be read!!
This is about as far as we can go to relieve ourselves of the problem.
With respect to Mozart, I think we need something a little more genteel than "Code of Conduct".
Can we put this matter to bed now!?. Response from Andy, if you please.
Many thanks
Woody

Ok, we've got some good reponses from players.

Yes I agree, a site announcement recommendation would be a great idea. Not sure if anyone would take any notice but worth a try of course.

I will put one on the beginners guide which is a good place, but not sure where to put the other one? Did you mean the main site brown menu to the left of the screen? I not too happy about putting it in there as I feel it would be out of place. I could put it in the Terms & Conditions, but then again no-one bothers to read that.

I could maybe start a new menu link "Site Rules" which would contain the resigning recommedation, behavour towards other players, use of bad language etc.... stuff like that. What do you think?

Unfortunately I won't get time to do it now though, I'm off to Spain on a long stag weekend Friday. I won't have time to be on here tomorrow so I'm setting my holiday flag now today. Hope the site doesn't crash or go into meltdown while I'm away. I see no reason for it to, but I doubt there will be an internet connection where I'm staying. Hopefully there is, so I can keep an eye on things. I'm back on Tuesday 7th.

Thanks for your feedback everyone.